Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?
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computerflyer





PostPosted: 01 Sep 11 20:04
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

mgill,

I think you misunderstood the points 180 degrees.

> Are you implying that "chanting, singing, or running in circles around city squares, etc, etc" is what people who believe in God do?

Organised religions are not congruent with those who believe in a god. However many organised religions do all those things in the name of piety and true believers (and controlling followers). Do they not?

> I am merely suggesting that if Australia is going to start serving halal/kosher meat anywhere and everywhere because of muslims/jews, then why can they not do the same with the rest of the population who do not want to eat halal/kosher?

Why should anyone do or worry about the former was the point. Halal, kosher, it all digests the same way and neither will result in any difference post death. The only difference is the animals' death experience.
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mgill





PostPosted: 01 Sep 11 09:00
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

computerflyer,

Are you implying that "chanting, singing, or running in circles around city squares, etc, etc" is what people who believe in God do? I am merely suggesting that if Australia is going to start serving halal/kosher meat anywhere and everywhere because of muslims/jews, then why can they not do the same with the rest of the population who do not want to eat halal/kosher? Whether it be for religion or not.

The issue is of animal welfare along with religion. Halal/Kosher meat is served BECAUSE of religion. Even if I did not believe in God, I would still prefer eating an animal that wasn't sacrificed in the name of God.

I am commenting on this internet forum to educate the people who talk about there being no difference in Halal and non-Halal food and how it affects no one. It does make a difference! Just because they don't taste any different from each other, doesn't mean we should let it go and turn all the food in this country halal/kosher. Next thing you know, a man will be allowed more than one wife, a woman can be stoned in public for having sex outside of marriage, etc. Is that what Australia wants? In the name of religion, who knows how much will change in this country?

I love living in Australia and do not want it to change from a western country to a middle-eastern country. Do you?
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computerflyer





PostPosted: 01 Sep 11 06:21
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

Anyone of any religion who thinks they will have any different outcome or place in the cosmos by eating or not eating any kind of meat killed one way or another, covering or not covering their heads, covering or not covering their bodies, chanting, singing, or running in circles around city squares, etc, etc, need more help than they will find on an internet forum.

If one's issue is animal welfare, at least that makes sense. In the name of religion?

s/Pastafarian Deacon (Hon.) icon_lol.gif
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mgill





PostPosted: 01 Sep 11 00:14
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

I am a Sikh. A minority in the Australian community. Sikhs believe in one God (meaning that anyone who believes in a God, doesn't matter which religion, all believe in the same being). We are to treat everyone equally. There are certain things that are we are prohibited from doing like; cutting our hair, getting intoxicated, useless talking (gossiping, back-stabbing, lying, etc), committing adultery, etc. One of the things prohibited also include eating meat that has been killed in a ritualistic manner e.g. halal, kosher. The meat that we eat has to be killed as humanely as possible. It is called 'Jhatka' meat.

Now how is it possible to get 'Jhatka' meat when Australia is trying to cater to Muslims/Jews? Don't get me wrong. I am not a hater but I find it very hard to eat out because you can never trust people to know what type of meat they're selling (as I have experienced with Oportos & KFC head offices) or that they will even bother labelling it as halal/kosher so that you know NOT to eat it. Nandos, thankfully, has a sign that shows they sell halal meat.

To hear that Coles and Woolworths are selling halal meat without labelling it just makes me sick. I love eating meat and cannot become a vegetarian. But now I find it impossible to eat meat or even buy meat ANYWHERE.


Huey1, I know this is not a religious forum but without realising, you have shown ignorance towards others. You do not recognise and acknowledge the people who do NOT want to eat halal/kosher meat. I am not just talking about me but of the people who have commented before you (I believed you called them "IGNORANT REDNECKS"), talking of how disturbed they are of knowing an animal suffered more than they should have before ending up on someone's plate. You're basically talking about 'giving in' to the "local Muslim,Jew or Aliens" just because it is easier.

Making something halal also shows you who gets your money after you buy a product with the Halal logo. You're basically supporting them indirectly when buying products with the Halal logo. It's religion and business. If anyone is looking to know more on Halal certification, take a look at this link : http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/michael-smith-blog/halal-certification/20090807-ece3.html
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madcapmagician





PostPosted: 23 Aug 11 20:51
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

Syzygy No, I don't think you have misinterpreted too much. I have no qualms about buying meat from Coles or Woolworths or my local butcher. In that specific context I am satisfied that the product available to us to buy is of an acceptable standard. Quality of course may vary, but as to what happened behind the scenes before it got on the shelf, I am not in the slightest bit worried if it had its throat slit first or if it was stunned first. I think the religiosity of food preparation is absurd and totally irrelevant to anything that matters. Whether you believe in God, a god or no god is up to you. Whether you eat meat or not is up to you. I'm not offended by anyone's decisions. Perhaps you may find the Christian Bible a dubious source. As an atheist I would be surprised if you found it otherwise. For myself, I find it helpful but not as a dietary influence and I don't believe it gives me the right to judge others harshly if they choose their own guiding principles. Also, it might interest you to know that because I have stated that I am a Christian, it does not mean that you understand exactly or in any way what that means for me.
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SYZYGY





PostPosted: 23 Aug 11 18:59
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

I apologise if I've misinterpreted your comment Madcapmagician, but you say:

"Meat is meat is meat. How it is killed is immaterial."

Can I interpret this to mean that you have NO qualms about animals any animals being killed for human consumption regardless of how cruel, painful or inhumane that killing may be?

You claim to be a "Christian" which is why I'm doubly surprised at your (apparently) callous attitude. I would've assumed that the means and/or method of Halal killing would be totally offensive to your moral stance. And personally, I don't see that the bible has anything to do with how we treat animals in an enlightened 21st-century world. People who quote the bible in any sort of context are arguing from a very dubious source.

And as an atheist, I don't need any book of instructions as to how to live my life with care and compassion for all others on the planet including animals.
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madcapmagician





PostPosted: 23 Aug 11 09:36
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

Ummm yeah. Meat is meat is meat. How it is killed is immaterial. How it is labelled is immaterial. As a Christian I am not in the least offended by calling it halal or kosher or whatever. My Christian bible tells me that it is not what goes in to the mouth that defiles the man but what comes out. Live and let live. Enjoy the meat if and while you can still afford it. We have far bigger problems facing us at the moment..
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Ulladulla





PostPosted: 23 Aug 11 08:20
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

Hi All, Looking at Coles meat in Ulladulla,you wouldn't buy it little less than eat It.Come on Woolworths.Our butchers are great.Cheers
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SYZYGY





PostPosted: 22 Aug 11 14:21
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

This question was raised some time ago by a member of the Muslim community, but I've just now read this thread.

"Have we invented a device that measures discomfort in an animal's brain using one method against another?"

Well, yes we have actually. It's called an fMRI (Functional magnetic resonance imaging) which enables us to quantify neurological processes in the brain's pain centre according to external stimulus.

So... we now acknowledge that Halal killing DOES cause the animal both distress before and during the process of having its throat cut. On the other hand, the usual humane method of killing the animal is by use of a penetrative captive bolt, which causes instantaneous loss of consciousness by destroying the cerebrum, and causes no such distress it's all over in a few milliseconds.

In my opinion, Halal killing should be immediately legislated out of existence in Australia. There is simply NO justification for the continuation of Dark Ages practices that cause pain and suffering to animals. If we must eat meat (as mammalian omnivores) then the very least we can do is kill our table meat humanely.
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Lucia





PostPosted: 24 Jul 11 22:06
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

I'm puzzled that you are posting the question here instead of simply asking the question of the supermarket concerned.

Why don't you contact them and then put up the answer here?

Personally I doubt that it would be true, but if it is then a big thumbs down to Coles or any other organisation which in any way sanctions killing of animals without stunning.

To kill any animal according to some stupid religious dogma is beyond belief.
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socialist





PostPosted: 19 Jul 11 16:45
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

I have worked in a meat works that does halal kills,cattle are stunned before slaughter with a blow to the head by a pneumatic stunner it is not dead until its throat is cut usually by a Pakistani slaughterer at our plant facing mecca (wherever the hell that is)
Muslims and Jews cant eat meat killed in any other way as dietary law forbids eating of carrion, the animal must be alive prior to having its artery severed.
I find kosher slaughter to be more inhumane than halal as the cattle have their head restrained by a neck brace and chin strap so a Rabbi can cut its throat with a large rectangular ceremonial blade to my knowledge no stunning is used.
The carcass is sprayed with a salt solution to remove as much blood as possible as Jews consider blood impure, certain veins and bones are also removed, I dont know of any meat works who do this slaughter in Australia.
Most export meat works in Australia now do Halal meat its a marketing thing.
Can someone tell me why Muslims and Jews are forbidden to eat pork?
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Huey1





PostPosted: 20 Jun 11 18:43
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

This is the interesting part, we would loose local jobs, therefore these people will need assistance from Centrelink which mean higher taxes on the rest of us, the cost of production of the much smaller market would obviously be greater which means that we would have to pay more for the essentially same goods (just not halal just to please those ignorant rednecks). some would say no problem!!! but that just shows their obvious stupiity. supermarkets are here not for your convenience they are here to make money form you, PROFITS. They will simply import cheaper goods form overseas just like ALDI and many others. This wont help our GDP (look it up if you need to), this wont create jobs for our kids, it wont help us as a nation at all. We survived the storm of the GFC pretty well unscathed by comparison to the rest of the world. Lets hope we do the same if a recession ever comes again and it will!
I've eaten Kosher, Halal and whatever you would call the other(heathen meat I dont know, cant call it normal because nothing is normal anymore!), I couldnt really tell the difference. But I do understand that the best meat is usually reserved for export abit like John West keeps the best...or what ever.
Is it really worth getting all stressed over something like this, I wish our Government would grow the balls and tell it like it is "We need this market for our prosperity" and put it to bed once and for all!!!
This is not a Religious forum so lets not us this to vent our hatred or again ignorance towards others.
So what if this also helps our local Muslim,Jew or Aliens in their everyday life, who knows it may actually make us all live in harmony and accept each other for who we are and what each of us contributes to society rather than what each believes in their heart.
It seems some are just hellbent on stirring up trouble, and creating disharmony.
Lets leave all the fighting overseas and we can all pray to our GOD to help us all have peace and harmony all over the world afterall isnt that what all the religions believe in anyway???
Thats my 2 bob!!!! Lets see all the hate mail over this one... eusa_pray.gif
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Huey1





PostPosted: 20 Jun 11 18:42
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

The topic of Halal foods being sold in supermarkets etc is not a new one. Every few years it rears its ugly head again as ignorant people jump up and down demanding the government to remove this or change that. I am not going to go and explain what Halal is, you can find it out if you really want, but rather I would like to perhaps educate some of you who are capable of understanding basic business concepts.
Firstly Australia and New Zealand (our beaten up little neighbour) have been the World Leaders in the production of sheep for decades, we are both small on population, so what happens to all this meat? Well it gets exported to those countries with huge populations...Exports means Jobs for AUSSIES money for our families etc. YES LIVE EXPORTS have been in the media lately but not all our exports are treated like this...

Our choices are obvious, but what about our export of Locally slaghtered meat sent chilled or frozen ( we can supervise the compasionate killing here), this will mean even more jobs for us, more money to go around etc.

So where is this market and what are their requirements? Well the largest part of this market is to countries who demand Halal certified product! If we are to export to them (ie make sales for our own good) we have to meet(no pun intended) their requirements. We have to supply Halal product full stop. Ok but why do we have to have it here???? Well thats simple economics, it is less expensive to produce meat, biscuits, icecream or whatever on the one processing line/ factory etc than to have to seperate production for export and local. There is no difference in the product to most, but it matters to those who require it to be halal, its no skin off any body's backs who dont care. We wont even go into debate about its health benefits etc.
The bottom line is the largest part of our market is in exports, and it doesnt hurt our local market anyway. Some manufacturers will not label local produce with the halal certificate from fear of the backlash of th IGNORANT REDNECKS. But nevertheless it is still Halal whether we like it or not and most would not even know it! So who really cares ? It looks the same, tastes the same and looks the same.
Now if we didnt meet these requirements, what would the outcome be?
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Legless





PostPosted: 18 Jun 11 11:47
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

@mastoi Actually stunning does not cause the heart to stop immediately. That's why it's called "stunning" and not "killing". The animal still bleeds out but as far as we know is oblivious to it. Exanguination occurs before it can regain consciousness. Cattle have an extra blood supply to their brains which is in the back of the neck unlike sheep and goats, so they bleed out more slowly. I believe it is acceptable to Muslims to stun the animal first as it still bleeds out while the heart is beating and that is suitable under our animal welfare laws.
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tigereye





PostPosted: 17 Jun 11 10:19
Post subject: Is it worth complaining to Coles about their meat?

I am a little confused here, what is this discussion/query about, meat or religion?? before we go off in a tangent about the cruelty of halal prepared meat, spare a thought for the cruelty meted out right here in this country to pigs raised in tight confinement for all their lived, chickens kept heaped in tiny cages for their eggs, and the list goes on. I eat meat but obtain it from a butcher who deals only in farm raised and "humanely" killed animals. Giving up processed foods that are made to halal specifications would probably good for our health anyway, I try to do that now and eat more fresh stuff or make my own.
Just one curious query, why all this halal processing? why haven't we had an inundation of kosher prepared food? or any other religious connatation ? a bigger problem looming is this steady erosion of our country to muslim influence....
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