Midas West Ipswich: Not happy about the answer we were given

[NGE]

Here is an email I sent to Midas West Ipswich recently:

Dear Sir,

on 16 Oct 09 I brought my Toyota Surf in to Midas Ipswich for a fitting of a full 3" exhaust system. The price I was quoted for this was $380.00.

However, in December 2009, just before going on annual holidays with my family, I discovered that I did not get what I paid for.

What I received was a 3" muffler and 1.5 metres of 3" pipe. Pipes that lead from the engine to the muffler were left untouched.

My wife rang your store to discuss the problem but was told that it was not necessary to fit a full 3" system and that it would be more expensive. This is in spite of the original quote for a full 3" system.

Needless to say, I am not happy about the answer we were given.

In order to correct the mistake, I require the work undertaken to be rectified to a full 3" system (and as originally quoted for $380.00 - i.e. no more to pay).

If I have not heard from you within one week regarding this matter, I will have no alternative than to take the matter further.

Sincerely

NGE Member: Billygoat7

[Section52]

Billygoat - When you get the 3 inch exhaust system between the engine manifold and the muffler you might be dissappointed with the result. Toyota and other car manufacturers do a lot of research before a vehicle is sold to the public and this would include the design of the exhaust system. If you have ever had any experience of tuning engines for higher performance you should know that the diameter and length of the pipe is critical. Without getting too technical, calculations are carried out with respect to the speed of sound in the high temperature gases and the number of pulses in a given time. The gas travelling along the pipe has inertia and when the next exhaust valve opens this inertia helps to pull the gas from the discharging cylinder. By increasing the diameter of the pipe the gas velocity is lower and therefore has less vacuuming effect. So your big pipe will change the torque characteristics of the engine.

[bc53]

I agree with Section52, about 10 years ago I change the whole exhaust system on my car, extractors and a 3 inch pipes plus a free flow muffler ( my manifold was cracked and had to be replaced anyway) cost a lot more then $380, but all I got was a nicer engine sound which make you think that the car goes better, waste of money.

[bc53]

Sorry I forgot to add. Billygoat7 I think that you did get what you paid for, maybe what you wanted was different to what you got, if they sold you what you actually had in mind you would have paid a lot more.

[SYZYGY]

Hi there Billygoat,

Technically speaking, you DID get what you paid for; that is, a 3" exhaust system. This comprises a suitably tuned muffler and a 3" tail pipe.

The part of the exhaust system from the exhaust manifold to the front of the muffler is known as an "engine pipe" but is not necessarily described as being included in the exhaust pipe. Confusing stuff!

You can't simply bolt a 3" engine pipe onto the existing exhaust manifold flange without modifying the existing headers -- which would cost you a lot more than $380. Plus the entire exhaust system needs to be "tuned" to suit the new headers and engine pipe. As the other guys have suggested, the car makers have already sussed out the optimum exhaust system design to suit that engine.

I'm also unsure as to why you apparently waited two months to lodge your complaint with Midas.

Anyway, good luck.

[SF1961]

Toyota Surfs are Japans waste products sent overseas for scrap. A 3 inch exhaust is a waste of time, unless you want to make more noise. Noisy diesels sound s***house. Your neighbors probably think you are a tool in your noisy car. If you want more power buy something decent. If you were hoping for better economy buy something decent. Midas and other franhises love people like you, their cost for you 3 inch exhaust was probably less than $50

[Ten4]

Hi Billygoat
It is quite clear from your original post that you did not get what you thought you should have got for the money you paid.
A complete exhaust system includes all pipes and fittings from the manifold to the tailpipe. If this is what they quoted you on, this is what they should have fitted.
Did you get a detailed quote before the work was undertaken?
Cheers
John

[Billygoat7]

Thanks to all of you regarding your informed responses. Firstly, I would like to say to SF1961
that your comments are completely wasted on me. Go back and play with your own toys if you have nothing constructive to say. Secondly, the quote was for an entire exhaust system - from the manifold to the exhaust tip. That is what was asked for and quoted on, but not received. As SYZYGY asked, why did it take so long to make a complaint? Well apart from the obvious (xmas holidays), I did not have reason to go under the car to look to see if the work was done correctly. Sometimes these things are taken for granted, but not anymore. Finally, to those who are more technically minded (SYZYGY and Section52) the exhaust was not the only thing which was to be modified on the vehicle. The overall work to be completed was - modifying the wastegate and boost pick up point, remapping the electric fuel pump, resetting the pump timing, flowing the injectors, and then fitting an intercooler. This work has been successfully carried out many times before by a respected Brisbane tuning company and almost doubles the power output, with engines maintaining their reliability.

[goss1175]

section52, i agree with your points regarding version of performance if fitting a 3inch full exhaust to this vehicle. HOWEVER you are missing the point. Op states he was qouted a price for a FULL 3 INCH exhaust system & only got a part 3 inch system. Whether the car will perform or go backwards,be a tuning nightmare or not,he was qouted a full system & didn't get what he paid for.

[SYZYGY]

Hi again Billygoat,

Now that you've said: "the quote was for an entire exhaust system - from the manifold to the exhaust tip" I can better understand your concerns. You definitely have a claim of non-supply of quoted services, or misrepresentation, and should lodge a complaint with your state's Consumer Affairs department ASAP.

If you can, get the vehicle on to a hoist at a garage, and take a tonne of photos of the entire exhaust system to substantiate your complaint.

Note too that so-called "verbal" contracts are also legally binding, which means that (in theory) they have to supply goods and services in accordance with what they told you -- it doesn't (again theoretically) even have to be in writing if you can prove evidence of discrepancies.

And please ignore comments from people like 'SF1961' as they're simply trolling forums and trying to start flame wars. Which is why they inevitably have nothing constructive to offer.

All the best.